Dismiss ×
Join the discussion…


  • in this conversation
      Media preview placeholder
      • You will only know just how WRONG I was in another 20 years.

          • If the person writing this comment is indeed the person indicated, in my opinion and based on my knowledge of this situation, this is the only honest, if clever, comment that could be made by a super alchemist who knows to have commited a great financial wrong, that negatively affected countless people, and who thinks that he is so clever that he will be discovered only after his death.

            • Sorry, gotta weigh in.
              None of this is money printing.
              People are confusing the 'circulation' and 'use' of the money, where the CB might type me in for a C-Note sometime, and the source of the money, which is its 'creation' part.
              The source of my C-note, here, is earnings from a debt-issuance-funded stock-purchase.
              Money that is earned or based on issuing a debt at creation is not money printing.
              Absent the untimeliness of the term, money-printing means paying for goods and services with newly issued money.
              While glossing over the inability of the central banks to 'spend' money, there is a larger issue of having a private bank borrow money to serve a public socio-economic purpose.
              Any losses would be on the taxpayer.
              Unnecessary is probably the main word that comes to mind.
              If the government, which has the power of the sovereign fiat money system, wants to stimulate demand, or to fund infrastructure, it can just 'print the money' via seigniorage, as revenue and income in its budget, and pay it into existence.
              Because it's OUR money system.

                • I'm trying to figure our what steve from virginia is saying. I think you've got the right answer. The thinking that any modern monetary system is based upon anything but demand just won't hold water. We've seen what the 18th century banking system did to 19th century and early 20th century England France and Germany. What good is that?

                  • Who writes these things? I cannot even begin to dissect this...all of it is wrong. You can not alter a 3 into a 7 no matter how creative you get. While I disagree what what has been done before i..e QE infinity, this article is a fairy tale version of reality. OR written by someone who lacks basic understanding of finance as well as practical understanding of economics. Furthermore, the authors fail to learn any lessons from history...examples are plenty of those nations that thought they could print their way out of economic problems...Hemingway perhaps best summarized "The first panacea for a mismanaged nation is inflation of the currency; the second is war. Both bring a temporary prosperity; both bring a permanent ruin. But both are the refuge of political and economic opportunists."

                      • The best solution would be to un-redistribute the productivity of the average worker from the billionaires that have manipulated the world political-economy to steal, and hide it in offshore accounts of at least $31 trillion (double the US GDP).
                        But if the Fed is going to print new money, which it is doing right now, than instead of throwing more money at global banks who won't invest until the economy rebounds, the most effective way to stimulate the economy, is to distribute it evenly to every citizen, because most people would spend it right away.

                          • Who writes these things? JM Keynes, Milton Friedman ... Hemingway: great writer, and right about inflation, and war. We are advocating neither.

                              • You should, perhaps, revisit Keynes:“There is no subtler, no surer means of overturning the existing basis of society than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose. By this method they not only confiscate, but they confiscate arbitrarily; and, while the process impoverishes many, it actually enriches some. The sight of this arbitrary rearrangement of riches strikes not only at security, but at confidence in the equity of the existing distribution of wealth.”
                                I really wish people would stop mis-representing his ideas (whether conservative or liberal) and for once put them into context of the time they were written in i.e. the gold standard. The time when credit expansion was extremely limited, a time when advocating credit expansion by other means made sense...not at a time when the balance sheets of developed nations have exploded beyond recognition.
                                ...as for Friedman...not a big fan but regardless how about this for Friedman: "I have a great deal of sympathy for a true Gold standard. A world in which you would have one would have many desirable qualities. Its greatest virtue would be, of course, that if it could exist, there would be no government intervention into the process of creating money. There would be a discipline exerted by Gold." or how about this one: "The stock of money [should] be increased at a fixed rate year-in and year-out without any variation in the rate of increase to meet cyclical needs."??? Regardless, neither argues that the government printing and distributing cash to people "would have no consequence" and that it doesn't make sense to worry about solvency of central banks.

                                Perhaps you should read a little bit of Hayeks work to see where we are and where we are going?

                                  see more
                                  • It's probably high time to get rid of economic ideas from the last century that are all based around a gold standard and a world in which the major powers are in a constant state of either war or cease-fire. The problem is that most of what passes for economic science these days is mostly just politics.

                                      • Yeah because history doesn't have a tendency to repeat itself or because this time its different...you should, perhaps, read about previous moments in history when people thought like that and then look at the outcomes. I can suggest Lords of finance by Liaquat Ahamed to begin with...where he says that in 1914 “the international banking community was very confident that there would not be the sort of ‘unlimited issue of paper *money+ and its steady depreciation,’ which had wrought such inflationary havoc in previous wars. ‘Monetary science is better understood at the present time than in those days,’ declared the bankers confidently.” so...there we go...if you need more look at France during the revolution or even John Law's antics before...all folks who thought they knew better...

                                      • Your inflation comment is not entirely correct. The reason for inflation is actually the improper issuance of money into the economy. Commercial banks in particularly issue money improperly. That is one of the main reasons for inflation besides resources scarcity.
                                        What constitutes improper issuance? Banks reshuffle existing money as well as create new money out of thin air via fractional reserve lending. I should use the term currency and not money because today money is not backed by anything tangible thus it is currency. The rule should be that if the money lent out will be used for productive reasons, for example to create a new good or service that in turn extracts money out of the economy, then new money can created. If not, existing money should be used. But since the repealing of the Glass–Steagall Act, it is difficult for banks to distinguish between the creating of new money and the use of existing money. Improper issuance of money is the core reason for inflation.

                                      • When the money supply does not grow along with a growing money supply, the lack of cash creates friction and slows down the economy. Imagine the number of dollars had not changed since they were first printed. We would have to have fractional pennies to pay for anything and prices would have to constantly drop. Since nobody likes to lower prices there would be a continuous shortage of market lubricant (cash).
                                        There is now a shortage of cash in the market. The US is operating at about 80% of capacity because regular people can't afford to by anything. Since 1980 productivity has doubled, but pay for 80% of the population has declined. (The income of the bottom 20% declined 8% between 2010 and 1013 alone, according to the FED). This happened because billionaires and global corporations have used market and political manipulations to collect and hoard incredible amounts of wealth. At least $31 trillion just in offshore accounts.

                                          • One solution would be to take back that $31 trillion in illegally stashed wealth, and distribute that back to the people that created it (by working harder, smarter, and longer hours). Just 5% of it would increase the US economy by 10%.
                                            But instead we have the Fed creating trillions of dollars and lending it to the same global corporations at near zero interest, or buying junk bonds at inflated prices, with tremendous profits siphoned off the economy again,
                                            If the Fed is going to try to stimulate the economy, then the way to do it is not to throw cash at banks with too much of it, who are waiting until the economy grows before they lend but to spread it evenly among all citizens so that it goes immediately into the economy.
                                            By the way new cash is only inflationary when it is used to stimulate an economy operating at close to full capacity. The reason we are not at full capacity is because to much money has been skimmed off by billionaires, who don't put it back into the economy.

                                          • This is an awesome proposal. As it stands, the beneficiaries of Government monetary stimulus actions are the already-rich:
                                            -- With QE, the beneficiaries are the Goldman Sachs of the world, the big hedge funds, the super wealthy, and foreign Governments like China which also buy up US Govt debt.
                                            -- With TARP, the beneficiaries are the big corporations getting bailed out and their institutional shareholders and creditors.
                                            -- With infrastructural spending, the beneficiaries are politicians and big federal or state level contractors - the same as in the rest of the world.

                                            The money asymmetrically stays with these already-rich entities and people, and does not get distributed anywhere close to equally to the check-out clerk at 7-11 or the single dad pulling down three jobs to make ends meet.

                                            The current approach merely helps the rich get richer. But everyone pays the burden of this debt in future years.It is fundamentally unfair and inefficient to boot.

                                            Directly distributing money to voting taxpayers cuts out the middlemen, provides 100% equal distribution of wealth, and provides a much shorter lag between stimulus and response.
                                            This will have my vote.

                                              • This is not about 'dragging down the top.'

                                                This is about removing wealth addicts from the equation, the ones who cannot control themselves, the ones who can never be sated, the ones with the 'drug' addiction that causes massive pain and suffering for hundreds of millions of people.

                                                It is our duty as a society to protect ourselves from those who cannot control their dangerous behavior, be they drunk drivers, pedophiles, or the insatiably greedy.

                                                The masses don't want cash to spend on more crap they don't need. They - er, we - want to work good jobs for fair wages, be - or at least feel - productive, maintain some dignity, and not have to worry about whether Bank of America will be paying another $17 billion to settle fraud charges (without admitting guilt, of course) while they flood the airwaves with yet another We Just Want To Help The Little Guy Succeed ad campaign.

                                                Those at the 'top' who don't suffer from Severe Uncontrollable Greedism can stay - the rest must be 'dragged down' and treated with whatever combination of therapy and drugs works to help them re-enter society with empathy and compassion.

                                                • Here are some good analyses of why this proposal is ridiculous:

                                                  The best thus far:
                                                  1) http://davidstockmanscontracor...

                                                  And the others:
                                                  1) Pater Tenebrarum's comment below (he is a real heavyweight)
                                                  2) http://globaleconomicanalysis....
                                                  3) http://www.zerohedge.com/news/...
                                                  4) good historical perspective http://davidstockmanscontracor...

                                                    • Unfortunately link contains no "analysis". I would not describe Milton Friedman, Keynes and Bernanke as "ridiculous". Wrong, perhaps? If so, lets have some good reasons.

                                                        • Here is the key line from that post which your article does not address - from whom are you confiscating the wealth behind this new money?

                                                          "To give money away, it would have to be taken, by the government from someone (via taxes) to be distributed to someone else.
                                                          Alternatively, money would be printed into existence causing inflation. Either way, it would not be "free"..."

                                                          The failure of Keynes is plain to see in Japan with Abenomics. The failure of Bernanke is clear to see in our current bubble of all asset prices.

                                                            • Hi Donald, We are not taking money away from anyone, or creating inflation. 1) we are increasing spending by allowing households make spending decisions. This is financed by central banks creating money. This is not inflationary when there is high unemployment and low inflation/deflation - a point Milton Friedman and JM Keynes agreed upon. 2) we are advocating broader equity ownership: Investors are willing to lend to governments at negative real interest rates. So we are suggesting governments issue debt and buy equities and distribute it to households. Combined, these policies should create wealth (if output is higher, so is it's present value (wealth)), and broaden the ownership of capital. All with NO change to taxes. We are also v critical of the "bubble-dependency" of current policies. By granting central banks the power to make transfers directly to households, interest rates would be less volatile and asset price distortions less likely.

                                                                • <covers face="" with="" hands=""> I don't mean to be ad hominem but your response is so un-right it just hurts to read it. Again apologies, it is not my intent to be mean.

                                                                    • I could probably return the compliment! And the sentiment ... To clarify our disagreement: you think that creating money is always inflationary?

                                                                        • Here is the bottom line: creating money ex nihilo (out of thin air) does not create more stuff (wealth) it only creates new claims on future stuff (aka debt). You are making a bet that tricking the market by creating a blip in demand will somehow fool the animal spirits into producing more stuff in the future which will then create enough wealth to repay the claim/interest you created out of thin air.

                                                                          So what happens if you are wrong and your experiment does not work out as you planned, what then?

                                                                          See this link for what happened in May of 2008 when stimulus checks were mailed out with tax returns as part of the first stimulus bill. Why didn't this work as planned? http://globaleconomicanalysis....

                                                                          and also this http://www.minyanville.com/bus...

                                                                            • Hi Donald, creating money ex nihilo creates neither wealth nor debt. Money is money. For proof that it is not debt, ask a cab driver if he is worried about the government defaulting on his $10 bill, or when he expects to get repaid. You will get very strange looks. Money is purchasing power. So no one is being tricked. If the Fed gives me cash I can buy more things. That is not a trick, it is an indisputable fact. Now, if the economy is already producing all it can, there will be inflation - by definition it cannot produce anymore. If, however, as in Italy currently, something like 10% of the economy is unemployed, increased spending will result in increased output, not inflation. This is Milton Friedman - and it's compelling logic in a reasonably free-market economy. As for the history of tax rebates, their impact is far more predictable than QE, negative interest rates, or multi-year infrastructure plans. The multiplier is almost certainly in the range of 0.5 to 1.5. And importantly, I don't mind if some people save it, others spend it, and others repay debt. We want households to make the decisions - not be forced into doing things by negative rates & asset price distortions. You can't trick markets. When a central bank announces cash transfers to households, markets will expect an economic recovery. And they'll be right.

                                                                                • You forget that creating money from thin air has other effects as well. Whether it raises the prices of consumer goods is a matter of contingent circumstances (also, that may happen with a considerable time lag, and "slack" in the economy or the labor market doesn't guarantee anything - have we already forgotten "stagflation"?). However, you don't get to pick and choose your inflationary effects. Relative prices will definitely be distorted when new money ex nihilo enters the economy, as exchanges of nothing for something will then take place - and this falsifies economic calculation and leads to a misallocation of scarce resources. Even if you're not au fait with the theory behind this, you should at least know that printing money has never "rescued" an economy. There simply are no historical examples of success. It is of course possible to ignite a boom by printing money, but as we have only very recently seen, one then tends to end up in a worse spot than before. After the demise of the tech boom, the y/y growth rate of the broad money supply reached nearly 20%. From there it gradually declined to about 2% in 2006/7 -and then a bust began that almost destroyed the financial system (it won't be different this time - the particulars of the next bust will be, but a major bust has already become unavoidable once again).
                                                                                  Why is it that nearly every commentator who thinks he needs to dispense advice to the central planners at the ECB and the Fed thinks we need more money printing? This this utterly absurd. On a very basic level let me point out that central planning simply does not work. This is not altered by offering what one personally believes to be a "better plan" (incidentally, hundreds of such "better plans" are floated by economists and journalists every year).

                                                                                    see more
                                                                                    • I have some theoretical sympathy with the Austrian notion of "distortions" in price signals caused by policy activism. But Hayek himself recognised that economies are not simple "equilibrium machines". There may be some "false" price signals from counter-cyclical policies but this is outweighed by the negative effects of extremely destructive cyclical pessimism in the recessions ( think the Eurozone). Also the potential distortions our cash transfers might cause pale in comparison to the huge shifts in interest rates and asset prices which are occurring. Hayek's main concern was inter-temporal distortions. If central banks used cash transfers to combat recessions, interest rates would on average be more stable and less volatile.

                                                                                      • < you don't get to pick and choose your inflationary effects.

                                                                                        You do if you're a 17th-century mercantilist (more accurately known as a "monetary crank") who doesn't believe in cause-and-effect, but does believe in magic.

                                                                                        And let's see. Lonergan manages a hedge-fund and wants the Fed to print money and hand it to private individuals to "increase equity holdings" and "decrease inequality." Nah! No self-interest on his part! His only concern is for the poor.

                                                                                        Hey, Lonergan, I have an idea. Since you actually believe the nonsense that consumer spending is ultimately what drives the health of an economy (it isn't, but that's beside the point), why rely on the government to print up money and distribute it? They'll only botch the job anyway, just as they do with everything else. Why not simply hand out federally approved printing presses to all private citizens below a certain income level and tell them to print up as much money as they want – er, uh, I mean "need"? That would stimulate consumer spending and decrease inequality just as much as having some central authority like government do the printing and distributing, right?

                                                                                        It took me years to realize and accept the fact that accountants, bankers, financiers, hedge-fund managers, and finance people in general (including financial journalists) understand less about economics than almost anyone else.

                                                                                          • But thanks to the fractional reserve principle, new money *continually* enters the economy “ex nihilo” -- EVERY time a bank (central or local) makes a new loan. It then poofs out of existence (except for the specter of interest) when the loan is repaid. That’s the way debt-based currency works. I think the essence of the author’s point is simply that more of the benefit of this fiat money should fall on those at the base of the pyramid rather than primarily those at the apex - where it tends not to “trickle down” very far.

                                                                                            • Like most thought experiments, the flaw in this free lunch theory can be seen when taken to the extreme. If the theory were true, Central banks could print money in the tens of trillions and hand it out to everyone. Sounds great, we could hand out 2 billion euro, dollars or yen to everyone on the planet and as long as people were willing to trade us the real products, services and assets their efforts created, none of us would have to work ever again. Ahh, but the money would lose value quickly as its supply increased, wouldn't it? If we could trade conjured up paper for real stuff, no one would work and make real stuff.
                                                                                              Done is small doses, you are transferring wealth. In large doses, you enter the hyper inflation, currency collapse regime and the game is over. Money in the form of fiat currency is purchasing power only if it is rare and the privilege is not abused.

                                                                                                • Point well made Khakuda. Like most systems, fiat money can be run well or run badly. But we have to move beyond this point. It is obviously true: The difference between Zimbabwe and Switzerland is not fiat money, or money printing - both countries print money and have fiat money regimes. What Mark & I are proposing is adding a tool to the armoury of central banks operating under a fiat money regime, so that they can be more effective in combatting deflation and recession.

                                                                                                    • Thank you. Equally, I enjoyed your piece and think it served a very good purpose in that it spurred the discussion. I also enjoyed reading the debate in the comments here and your willingness to (at least for now until you get worn out) participate.

                                                                                                      I agree that enough is enough with QE. These are not job/real economy growth policies as much as they are asset inflation methods, with a hoped for secondary effect of real job/economic growth. But, the last thing central banks should want is another unsustainable asset bubble that ultimately implodes, especially now as all of the easy bullets have been spent and policy response is much harder from these ongoing levels of stimulus. It was one thing in 2008/2009 with depressed markets and entirely another with the markets up several fold to record levels since then.

                                                                                                      I also think that zero interest policies are questionable at best. People are more likely to spend income earned versus a wealth effect from appreciated assets. Fixed income investors have been destroyed and many may have now allocated more to equity markets - the only game in town- to a degree that is dangerous and likely to cause forced selling when equity price momentum fades. Eliminating the return for natural savers and bond holders entails risks.

                                                                                                      For every lender helped, a saver was harmed. There was already so much debt in the system that the positive effect of a zero rate may not have enticed more spending to the degree the central banks models predicted and I will bet that the models didn't properly take into account the negative offset that 6 years of zero interest income had on the economy. Again, a wealth transfer.

                                                                                                      So, your idea that current policies are fully exploited and now money needs to flow to the real world instead has merit. Like you, I always thought that infrastructure spending was what should have been done for the past 6 years, but as you point out, it is harder to accomplish politically than just having an independent central bank add monetary stimulus.

                                                                                                      What we have to remember is that manipulating asset values, printing money and transferring wealth is not wealth creation and entails risks, some of which may not be revealed immediately. Wealth/value creation stems from education, the freedom to experiment, curiosity, people dreaming up new ideas and better approaches, getting up and working hard to build and create products and services and make their (and others) lives better. In free markets, that usually means government being minimized and less regulation. Once could point to wealth creation in China to refute this, but that experiment is far from over and visible imbalances are large enough to be concerning, much less less those not seen. I believe a competitive private market has proven more effective at allocating resources and creating value than a government operated one.

                                                                                                      While there are merits to independent central banks, especially during the throws of a crisis, there are risks as well to letting a small group of academics with little to no real world market experience and no checks and balances override the decisions of the millions of independent market participants to set the price of money and to decide where it should and shouldn't flow.

                                                                                                        see more
                                                                                                    • So many governments in the UK since the early Seventies have allowed the private banks to blow house price bubbles you may as well rename Great Britain as Big Bubble Britain! So what's the answer to stop house price inflation stop the private banks lending to anybody and by the same token stop sovereign governments creating fiat money because they also create inflation? If you did there'd be no money for growth of the economy. An outright ban on both money creation agencies creating is just plain dumb! Let's hear your solution!

                                                                                                        • Well said, Khakuda. To put it even more simply, why not just print up $3 million for every family and allow us all to retire? Those who want more could work if they want. When you take the thought experiment to its logical conclusion, you see how silly it is.

                                                                                                          • And what if you are wrong?

                                                                                                            What is "purchasing power"?

                                                                                                              • Good question, and always worth defining. I think we would be wrong if there was an increase in inflation and no increase in output or a fall in output. I think that is close to a zero probability in the Eurozone. One way to protect against this risk is to start with a modest transfer - we are suggesting 1-3% of GDP. This is a fraction of the money printed under QE in the US (which caused no measurable impact on inflation). If say a 3% of GDP cash transfer in Europe caused 3% inflation and no change in growth, the policy would end. I should stress however, that the policy we are recommending is far less risky than those currently being pursued. We have for example almost no precedent for negative interest rates, and many serious economists are extremely concerned by the 20% of GDP increase in base money created under QE. Our proposal suggests a fraction of this.

                                                                                                                "Purchasing power" is the ability to buy things. If the Fed transfers cash to me, my purchasing power rises. At the aggregate level, this should only be inflationary if the economy is operating close to full capacity. Otherwise, output and employment will rise. Expectations are important. If firms think it is temporary they will take this into account. If they think the central bank will keep doing it until demand persists at a level consistent with the central bank's inflation target, then logically that is what they will expect.

                                                                                                                  • And what is the Fed's track record since its inception with preserving this purchasing power?

                                                                                                                      • Thanks Bob. There are huge benefits for everyone if the frequency, severity and duration of recessions is reduced. Ultimately, productive growth caused by innovation creates successful economies. This definitively does not occur during depressions or prolonged recessions. The most destructive forms of recession are caused by financial panics - a point Milton Friedman and Bob Lucas would concur with. The Eurozone is the clear current example. In this case the financial panic was caused by the introduction of credit risk into sovereign bonds. Milton Friedman believed - correctly - that deposit insurance significantly reduced the incidence of financial panic. He also - correctly - believed that faced with the threat of deflation, central banks should print money. The most successful economy in history - the United States - has had its most stable periods of growth under fiat money. Independent central banks with effective tools (including cash transfers) can improve on this history.

                                                                                                                        • Eric, what are some examples throughout history of countries that have achieved prosperity through increases in the money supply?

                                                                                                                            • The New Deal is a great example of achieving prosperity through increased money supply to the bottom/middle class.

                                                                                                                              Also, most wars increased well being of the soldiers and families, on an economic level.

                                                                                                                              I do not know a single country that achieved prosperity without expanding the money supply or redistribution.

                                                                                                                              Of course, it's a question of where the new money goes to. 'Trickle Down' does not have much of a scientific backing. Or any case studies in favor of it.

                                                                                                                              But we lack the political will and backbone and we lack of people demanding the money in their pockets, to not get anything but miss-guided policies.

                                                                                                                              And then there's people, who out refusal to understand how fiat money works, instead hail some romantic ideal of non fiat currency. Gold has its place, that place is when we hit a point of complete destitution, and only then. As soon as trust returns to city/state like structures, fiat shines. I'd rather change how the state does its things, than abandon it and end up with the same shit after a phase of turmoil.

                                                                                                                              We need to bring the topic of printing money to the family table, it's something everyone should have a say in. With all the up and downsides, sure, but we need the people to understand they give power to money by accepting it.

                                                                                                                              edit: youtube that for my opinion on money c; /watch?v=dVjuOG_XJNE

                                                                                                                                see more
                                                                                                                              • See above. All the most successful economies in history have fiat money systems where central banks print money annually as a matter of course (for example, post war Germany & Italy, South Korea in recent decades, Taiwan ditto). In the last 20 years, China. The United States itself is probably the prime example over the last 50 years. Can you give an example of an economy which has delivered high GDP per capita without growing the monetary base? I am aware of none. In fact, to make your case, can you provide lots of examples.